Sunday, March 23, 2014

Direct vs. Indirect

This topic has been debated probably hundreds of times and its DIRECT vs. INDIRECT.  If you know a bit of history, most of early pickup stuff was predominantly Indirect.  In a few years following, there was a surge in popularity for Direct Game.  You probably know the arguments for both.

Direct Game
  • More risk, more reward
  • More authentic
  • Faster escalation
  • Saves time
Indirect Game
  • You can't do direct game in social circle because it will make you a weirdo
  • You can't do direct game in work settings or certain situations that would make it inappropriate
  • Direct game doesn't work on HB10's and the really hot girls because they been hit on so many times.

I think its stupid when people fight over which is better.  There is no such thing.  Ultimately what is better depends on your current skill level and also your sticking points.  Generally speaking, most beginners have issues with flirting, showing intent, and putting themselves on the line.  Its a common sticking point for most beginners.   Direct game is hands down the best way to start for complete beginners.  It helps fix a lot of initial issues most beginners face and also, direct openers gives you harsher blowouts.  The harder the blowout, the faster you numb yourself, and the quicker you can get out of your head, and the faster your approach anxiety fades.  Eating rejections is the path to getting better.  Beginners who start out indirect tend to learn it incorrectly.  The girls can sense that they want something else and therefore the girls get the creepy vibe... when they feel someone has a different intention than they are projecting.  Furthermore, guys who start learning pickup with indirect have a very hard time transitioning from platonic to sexual.  This is why so many early guys in The Game did indirect for up to 18 months before they finally started getting lays (don't quote me I heard this from other people).

On the flip side, if you been going out for a long time and you get results and all you do is direct sexual openers and you are blatantly pissing off 95% of the girls by clawing, picking up, and doing the hand of god to every person in the should start practicing indirect!

Some additional thoughts:
Obviously, you should learn both and ultimately, pickup is a numbers game.  If you're in Vegas and all you're doing is trying to get laid, then sure, go ahead and screen hard for the girls who want sex, go direct, and escalate hard.  But I will tell you this... its not going to work on every girl... especially if shes not attracted to you.  Direct openers will almost immediately blow you out if shes not feeling it or if shes a really hot bitchy girl.   If someone put a gun to your head and told you that you had one shot to approach and get that girl, your best best is to open indirect.


  1. "pickup is numbers game" . omg casanova ? are you saying this?

    you probably heard of Roosh V , and he says same thing - it is numbers game

    but is not the game about being EFFICIENT? when you approach not all girls but only girls who you feel intuitively fit with you? example: i have much experience in game, i look at girl in a club and i just feel she will accept me or not =>then approach.

    what do you think?

    1. Of course its a numbers game. You can certainly increase you probability by playing better game but that value will never be 1.

      Its different when you're learning game. Some times you have to practice a skill such as flirting and teasing which may in fact temporarily make your efficiency drop before it gets better. For most guys in the learning phase, you should work on the process and the mechanics rather than going for the easy simple pull.

    2. ok, but i dont' wanna become a man in my 40s who is relentlessly approaching 30-40 girls at night.

      The perfect game for me - when i see the girl i really like and easily pick her up, i dont' wanna do :
      1000 approaches->100 phones->80 dates ->30 lays.

      i wanna choose the girl i like and seduce.

      honestly, will you keep approaching 1000s girls just to get 100 more sexes in your game career forever?

    3. Of course its not expected you do PU forever. However, in the learning phase, you don't have the luxury of picking and choosing your perfect girl before approaching. Heck, you won't know shes perfect till after you approach her. Plus, there won't be enough sets to get good if you're that picky.

  2. In a earlier post you mention that to succeed with women, you need improve in fitness, fashion, lifestyle and social circle in addition to game. Can you lay out some progressions and tips on how to improve these?

    - I don't know how to improve my social circle because i just spent 5 years surrounded by the cockfest know as mechanical engineering in university and almost none of those guys had a real social circle. The only opportunity I see is getting social in church but I dont want to do that because word spreads quick about who's making moves on who... and sex before marriage is frowned upon greatly. how did you develop a social circle after university?

    - I don't know exactly what you mean by lifestyle. Do you mean hobbies/passions? Do you mean trying a new thing every month like you mentioned in one of your posts?

    -you posted on how you got your student dark designer jeans and it helped his fashion. I'm pretty retarded fashion wise, i need suggestions on how to dress (shirts, pants, shoes, accessories) for daygame and night game. Which brands and stores have good stuff at affordable prices...( I live in the los angeles area)

    - I know how to improve my aesthetics, thanks for spreading the zyzz mentality. i'm mirin brah

    Thanks in advance for your help Mike.

    1. 1. One way to develop pockets of social circle is through common interest. Find hobbies you want to cultivate and look for groups. Try or even Craigslist for these activities.

      2. Lifestyle is basically everything outside of looks and game. Its your career, the people you hang out with, how much money you make, the neighborhood you live, where you travel, etc etc.

      3. You can find designer jeans at Nordstroms. Keep it simple. Go to the Rail section and have employees there pick it out for you. Generally, designer jeans are around 200$ at regular price but try to find them for 125$ or less when on sale. Fitting is KEY. Be conscious when buying jeans if you are planning on gaining a lot of weight. For Day game, keep it casual. If you are doing mall game, avoid wearing the color black because people might think you work at a kiosk.

    2. For hobbies, try figure skating.

    3. For cheaper designer clothes go to Nordstrom RACK, the same clothes they sell at Buckle/Nordstrom for about half the price. (Ross, TJ Max, Steinmart, and Marshalls some SOME decent clothes as well with the discounted prices)

      1. Jeans- Rock Revivals are some the trendiest jeans you can buy, Big Stars are a close a pair that fits nice and snug while giving you the opportunity to walk/sit comfortably...none of that baggy jeans shit

      2. dress shirts- pop icon, diamonds, BKE, Roar(as long as its not the Jersey Shore dbag styles they have)

      3. RVCA, Obey, Society...and again watch out for the dbag styles

      but just go to, look at how the male models dress, and mimic that

  3. THANK YOU for saying that direct is weird in social circle game. Too many other PUA faggots say "oh, just go direct in your social circle, fuck what people think!"

    1. I agree, indirect and direct should be used in specific contexts.
      The indirect game was taught specifically for high energy environments such as the club and other social settings. going direct is best used for girls who are strangers and you will not see again in the near future, thus the reason for showing intent early in the interaction.

  4. Would day or night game matter for developing this skill set going direct?

  5. What most people don't realize is that any line, like "where is the nearest starbucks" can be made direct or indirect depending on your tonality and subcommunication. Julien is very good at that.

  6. someone tell me how to do indirect

  7. Would you say indirect game is best in college?